Have you noticed since covid that tips are far less. My hair stylist and my house cleaner have told me I am the only customer that tips over 5% (we tip 25% to everyone in service jobs). It sickens me. That being said working at a wine shop, I have worked at many- the pay is abysmal for the knowledge and experience I have. Which is why wine will never be my full time gig. Wine service positions I wish would get recognized for how much goes into them. You are working in conditions I won’t work in anymore- can’t since cancer, but ugh!
YES tipping has gotten significantly lower in the last five years! A decade ago, I used to pull in a consistent 25%, with the occasional higher tip. I rarely broke 20% when I was working in San Francisco wine bars, and it’s now even lower for me in my current spot (a retail/wine bar hybrid in the East Bay). Unless you’re working with a large, expensive bottle list, it’s hard to make good tips these days. Even then, I’ve heard that the tip pools have not been kind to Michelin somms…
800%?!?!?!?!? That's absolutely bonkers. I would hope that those restaurants include tip in the tasting menu price. I can only speak from my experience, but the places where I've worked have never been higher than 3.5x cost, and even that much of a markup was met with considerable sticker shock.
Only slightly unrelatable article because I can’t imagine tipping less than 20% for anything while out, including just a glass of wine.
But in general, I definitely agree! Never been a somm but working in a wine store we get paid well to use the combination of knowledge, intuition and social skills to uncover what a variety of types of customers want and somms on the floor absolutely deserve to be paid better for that same combination of skills, PLUS all the service that goes into it!!
Teehee! And I completely agree that wine store employees need to have the same set of skills that translate to success on the restaurant floor. I’m in a retail/wine bar hybrid position now, and the same things that make for fast and easy service in a restaurant also make for great service in a wine shop.
Moral of the story? Trust your wine shop employees - they know the shelves, and they know how to get you what you want!
Yes!! This has made me think someone needs to do a “how to get the most out of your local wine store” piece at some point (or if you already have yours I’d love to read it!)
I've actually neevr heard that tomoato saying about knowledge vs. wisdom before, but it's perfect!
There's also this element to formal learning that helps unlock a sort of Rosetta Stone to everything about wine - it takes all this disparate knowledge and gives it this center that you can spin out from confidently, and not sweat nitty gritty detail so much. Whereas without it, every small factoid you aren't aware of feels like you don't know enough yet. When in truth, you just need the center, no one will ever learn it all.
It's funny, these days I can instantly detect when I'm talking to someone who is roughly where I was 6 months to a year ago in terms of just drinking lots of different wines, looking up shit online, and walking around with this deep-end-of-the-pool weight of bullet point wine facts. It half makes me feel good because I'm thrilled they're on that journey, and half makes me cringe when they get lost in the morass of disjointed knowledge and I recognize my past self in that moment.
Likely even to unlock that Rosetta Stone element, a simple WSET or CMS Level 1 or 2 is plenty. That gives anyone that core of what this is all about. And from there they can "spin out" from that core in any direction, and always find their way out and back in terms of what they're drinking and why they like it or not.
Funny that you put it in a Rosetta Stone context… One of the reasons why I wanted to pursue a career in wine was because of the fact that everybody, from total wine newbies to Master Sommeliers, is constantly learning. It’s literally impossible to know it all, and I’ve had a lot of positive experiences with people much smarter than me sharing their knowledge with abundant enthusiasm. The longer I work in wine, the more I realize that knowledge is only valuable if it can be shared.
I’m with you on getting wine pros the base knowledge (and the basic study skills) that a WSET I or II would provide. People who are more interested in restaurant service would benefit from going through the Intro and Certified Sommelier exams through CMS. But I also know some amazing somms that have never done any formal wine study, and yet have the ability to talk about Barolo vintages better than others with big pins and fancy suits. Wine education in all its forms makes for a more fascinating talent pool.
Have you noticed since covid that tips are far less. My hair stylist and my house cleaner have told me I am the only customer that tips over 5% (we tip 25% to everyone in service jobs). It sickens me. That being said working at a wine shop, I have worked at many- the pay is abysmal for the knowledge and experience I have. Which is why wine will never be my full time gig. Wine service positions I wish would get recognized for how much goes into them. You are working in conditions I won’t work in anymore- can’t since cancer, but ugh!
YES tipping has gotten significantly lower in the last five years! A decade ago, I used to pull in a consistent 25%, with the occasional higher tip. I rarely broke 20% when I was working in San Francisco wine bars, and it’s now even lower for me in my current spot (a retail/wine bar hybrid in the East Bay). Unless you’re working with a large, expensive bottle list, it’s hard to make good tips these days. Even then, I’ve heard that the tip pools have not been kind to Michelin somms…
Ugh!
Well however skilled the sommelier is I would baulk at giving any tip when the mark up on the wine is 800% ,as it is in some London restaurants.
800%?!?!?!?!? That's absolutely bonkers. I would hope that those restaurants include tip in the tasting menu price. I can only speak from my experience, but the places where I've worked have never been higher than 3.5x cost, and even that much of a markup was met with considerable sticker shock.
Only slightly unrelatable article because I can’t imagine tipping less than 20% for anything while out, including just a glass of wine.
But in general, I definitely agree! Never been a somm but working in a wine store we get paid well to use the combination of knowledge, intuition and social skills to uncover what a variety of types of customers want and somms on the floor absolutely deserve to be paid better for that same combination of skills, PLUS all the service that goes into it!!
Teehee! And I completely agree that wine store employees need to have the same set of skills that translate to success on the restaurant floor. I’m in a retail/wine bar hybrid position now, and the same things that make for fast and easy service in a restaurant also make for great service in a wine shop.
Moral of the story? Trust your wine shop employees - they know the shelves, and they know how to get you what you want!
Yes!! This has made me think someone needs to do a “how to get the most out of your local wine store” piece at some point (or if you already have yours I’d love to read it!)
OOH I love this idea! I don’t already have an article like this, but stay tuned…
I've actually neevr heard that tomoato saying about knowledge vs. wisdom before, but it's perfect!
There's also this element to formal learning that helps unlock a sort of Rosetta Stone to everything about wine - it takes all this disparate knowledge and gives it this center that you can spin out from confidently, and not sweat nitty gritty detail so much. Whereas without it, every small factoid you aren't aware of feels like you don't know enough yet. When in truth, you just need the center, no one will ever learn it all.
It's funny, these days I can instantly detect when I'm talking to someone who is roughly where I was 6 months to a year ago in terms of just drinking lots of different wines, looking up shit online, and walking around with this deep-end-of-the-pool weight of bullet point wine facts. It half makes me feel good because I'm thrilled they're on that journey, and half makes me cringe when they get lost in the morass of disjointed knowledge and I recognize my past self in that moment.
Likely even to unlock that Rosetta Stone element, a simple WSET or CMS Level 1 or 2 is plenty. That gives anyone that core of what this is all about. And from there they can "spin out" from that core in any direction, and always find their way out and back in terms of what they're drinking and why they like it or not.
New Dave Baxter phrase unlocked 🏆
Funny that you put it in a Rosetta Stone context… One of the reasons why I wanted to pursue a career in wine was because of the fact that everybody, from total wine newbies to Master Sommeliers, is constantly learning. It’s literally impossible to know it all, and I’ve had a lot of positive experiences with people much smarter than me sharing their knowledge with abundant enthusiasm. The longer I work in wine, the more I realize that knowledge is only valuable if it can be shared.
I’m with you on getting wine pros the base knowledge (and the basic study skills) that a WSET I or II would provide. People who are more interested in restaurant service would benefit from going through the Intro and Certified Sommelier exams through CMS. But I also know some amazing somms that have never done any formal wine study, and yet have the ability to talk about Barolo vintages better than others with big pins and fancy suits. Wine education in all its forms makes for a more fascinating talent pool.